Whoops, I got the date wrong, it was actually last week, and the speaker was Barack Obama at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin: he certainly also knows about symbolism, like our friend from the 1930s.With Barack Obama it’s so important to look for content when he speaks, and weigh it coolly, and look at his voting in Congress. The way he is able to sway huge crowds with non-specific messages of hope is no different to what our friend from the 1930s was able to do, and the Germans seem just as vulnerable to it now as they were then.
One of Obama’s points was this: It was the moment, he said, to "renew the goal of a world without nuclear weapons" and not "stand idly by and watch the further spread of the deadly atom". Fine words, wonderful words, completely free of content. Remember he recently said that with himself as President, America would do take “no options off the table” to stop Iran getting nuclear weapons? That means he would be prepared to use the nuclear option. Germany had fallen on desperate times when the Nazis rose. Hitler was able to play on this with promises of a better future. Nowadays we are not economically desperate, but many of us feel desperate about the future of the world – the materialism and consumerism, the destruction of the ecosystem and the beautiful rainforests, the lack of a sustainable economic future when the oil runs out, nuclear proliferation…. The list continues, and many of us are rightly desperate for a new type of politics.
Barack Obama plays on this brilliantly. Those Germans do not know the man, he is not even German, he was making them non-specific promises of a better future and they were falling all over him. Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.
I feel that some astrologers do not take Obama’s astrology seriously like they would with a client. The man has Sun in Leo square to Neptune and Moon in Gemini square to Pluto. In any normal reading one would be delving into the unresolved issues and life-challenges that these aspects represent, the talents and contradictions and dangers. But like the Germans, some astrologers have fallen in love with Obama and what he seems to stand for. In their analyses they skim over those squares. We are bound to have different opinions about Obama. But those squares are central to him, they are deep character issues, and they need treating as such.

Click to Enlarge
Neptune and Pluto are both collective planets, they are strongly keyed in, in a challenging way, to his Sun and Moon. So he has a powerful relationship with the collective (and his Saturn-Jupiter in the 12th is almost like a world ruler!) But it is also problematic. Much as we may want to love him, the astrology forces us to be circumspect, to wait and see how it all unfolds.
In a documentary I saw a while back, a woman was saying that as an 18-year old she had met Hitler and looked into his eyes “and all I could see was goodness.” I do not think Obama is like Hitler, but people are seeing what they want to see, what they need to see. And there is that intoxicating feeling, which has gone international, of belonging. So let’s at least take the astrology seriously.

30 comments:
Go DR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I intensely disagree. Like Barack I have squares all over my chart and have grown into a wonderful middle aged person through those very squares. I don't think he is a sellout or a powermonger like hitler(who had a very tragic youth) I am offended for him at your suggestion.
I think a serious question is,
"Well, what if it really IS goodness?"
What will we do with Goodness, for Goodness' Sake?
I have to repeat myself --
No human being operates in a vacuum -- no matter what the natal chart looks like.
Obama's chart is not Hitler's chart. Obama's upbringing was not Hitler's upbringing. Obama's nurturance and culture and inner life are not Hitler's. The forces and currents and impulses of the 21st century are not the same as the world of the 1930s. I'm sorry, DR, that's just absurd.
To take superficial resemblances like, oh, similar aspects between planets, and freak out, and ask other people to freak out, is similar to saying,
"Barack Obama is Black. Idi Amin Dada was Black. Idi Amin Dada was a monstrous mass murderer. Therefore Barack Obama is a monstrous mass murderer."
Old saying: "The stars impel, they do not compel." The key is Free Will. Beware of taking astrology so "seriously" that you completely forget about Free Will.
Why declare the whole game over just because of planetary aspects? Why completely negate Obama's own Free Will, and his history of commitment to doing good for humanity?
Why not "take Obama's astrology seriously" simply by reading Dreams From My Father, and compare his history with his natal chart?
There is nothing to be afraid of here, DR, everyone. Absolutely nothing. Check your own head for the source of that fear. It's not in the natal chart. It's in you.
Hmm, DR stated that he does not think the two men are alike.
How the squares are handled, particularly by a successful person, sounds like an interesting topic for astrologers, and conceivably, helpful to many people who have similar squares.
As a side note, charismatic communication skill is a curious thing. I read an interesting item today--research finds charisma tends to negatively correlate with effective leadership, and yet it can be extremely valuable in effective leadership. (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_3_77/ai_n25149615)
I must admit being a bit shocked when I read this post. I read this blog often, and every other negative Obama post I've seen has drawn on specific negative examples in the media to state it's case. I'm an Obama fan, but reasoning and logic has been used, and I can totally see it. I know DR did not state that the two men are alike. No one can ever say definitively that two men are alike because there are so many things that determine who we are. I do, however, believe he is drawing a parallel and saying that Obama has the potential to be like Hitler. This conclusion was drawn because of similar reactions from huge crowds in Germany, the world and squares to personal planets from universal planets in his chart. This is where I disagree. The point is, I just don't see where people (especially the American press) are turning a blind eye to what Obama is doing. If anything, he's being asked to be more specific about intangibles like an ever changing war, a US economy that's up in the air, etc. It's very true, people are always seeing that they want and need to see and DR is no exception. Being circumspect should not be an exclusive emotion. People love me, even though I have Pluto in aspect to my Sun, Moon, Venus, Mars, Saturn, Neptune and Midheaven (and they're all mutually aspected). It can get pretty frustrating reading the interpretations that go on about how one can't trust my motivations, emotions, sexual urges, power, etc. The best thing for all of us to do is to "see how it all unfolds." We're all learning this crazy game called astrology, best of luck to everyone.
Thanks for all your comments. What doesn't seem to have drawn much comment is what I think of as the central point, which is the fine-sounding words that are essentially empty. It is the frequency with which he does this, and the crowd-pulling effect it has, which is the danger signal. I personally find it like a siren-call, I have to shut my ears and look at the actual words!
It is what all populists do and always have done, Hitler was just one example, but even though there are instructive parallels, it's still very contentious to even mention his name.
As I say, I don't think Obama is at all like Hitler - he doesn't set up hate figures, for example - but they are/were both demagogues, and I think that has to be acknowledged, and that is the only comparison I am making.
Melanie, Obama may have become a wonderful person (despite the demagoguery) through his squares, I agree, they can be very creative. But we don't know him yet, so I think we have to wait and see how he turns out.
Very interesting indeed, this whole debate, that is. I've spent quite some time examining Obama and trying to work him out. The neptune square sun, and pluto square moon aspects make this a somewhat difficult endeavor.
How to accurately parse this man's inner motivations, when he is such a charismatic and compelling figure. And yes I agree with DR on this one, the first international political figure who is as charismatic and compelling as Hitler if not more so.
DR likened him to an African chieftain in one post, but I believe you have to go back further to more ancient times to get a more accurate comparison.
In my opinion, Obama is closer to the idea of an Egyptian pharoah. I feel that he believes that this presidency is his destiny and that he feels he has divine dispensation in some way. And that this feeling originated at some point in his childhood and NOT as an adult ambition.
I don't doubt that he wants more than anything to help others and to improve the world we live in both economically and environmentally but in my view his deepest motivation stems from a sense of divine kingship and noblesse oblige.
I love your writing on this. The style without substance was how Tony Blair came across to me before he got elected. Nobody seemed to notice that he wasn't actually SAYING anything, he was just coming out with nice quotes all the time that fed the mood of people.
I don't follow politics btw, am very allergic to it unless it's through lens of astrology; just want to say how much I always enjoy your take on a (for me) mind-numbing subject. I love it when you end up pissing people off as well :-) keep up the good work!
I think it's funny that an astrologer is concerned about Obama being nonspecific. I get that being an astrologer is not the same as being president, and that various skills are required for each profession. But I still think it's a bit hypocritical.
I breathed a sigh of relief when I read this, Dharmaruci. I've noticed that you've never been 100% pro-Obama, though you've given him benefit of the doubt on occasion. I'm glad you've slid a little more anti-O this time, and voiced concern.
I find it absolutely incredible that he has risen so far with so little investigation into his background. It's almost as though the public and fellow politicians have been hypnotised (his Neptune connection).
There are still questions even over his eligibility to be President, too complicated to explain in a line or two, but there are scholarly posts today by an historian at No Quarter which I found fascinating, both for their content and because the powers that be haven't already investigated these matters. They must be hypnotised too!
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/27/divided-loyalties-obamas-eligibility-problem-part-1/
Part 2 is still to come, I think.
LOL! You sure stirred up the anthill again, DR!!
I will be voting for Obama because I prefer the general Democratic platform over what the Republicans stand for now. IMO, leaders are most often an expression of the collective and their's is a thankless job at best. Plus they ALL have to be into power because no sane person would want to be president, PM, etc.
At least Obama is more articulate and fun to listen to . . . :::grin:::
Obama isn't responsible for what people project on him, he's only responsible for how he responds to it.
From what I know, and we do actually know quite a lot about him, although he isn't very old, so not as much as we know about some others, he has lived a life of gathering knowledge and serving others through community work and participation in the political process. Should he have spent years in corporations or litigation like some of our politicians? Would that make him a better man?
It's telltale that his *concession* speech in New Hampshire was one of the best speeches of the campaign. He may have thought it was all over then, and he still gave a speech full of kindness, generosity and hope. When did Hitler ever give one of those?
What we have in the White House now (and in our country) is a disaster. I wake up every morning wondering what new shame will we have to bear--torture of the innocent, lost civil rights, lies about accomplishments, collapsing physical infrastructure, tax and spend policies that benefit the rich. I am ready to wake up in the morning and think that thoughtful, intelligent, questioning young man is my President.
I am looking forward to a non-divided government that shares my goals and has the strength to enact them. And in addition I know that it is *make-or-break* in terms of the Supreme Court who wins the White House in November.
I'm beginning to think that Obama's innate humanness (and the disappointment that will invoke) will be the spur that forces us to confront our strange structures for dealing with power. It isn't until we recognise that giving everyone an equal say in the mechanisms that guide our behaviour is vital for their application.
see my blog Inauspicious Time of oath by the next US President -- Hindu ...23 hours ago by Shridhar
This blog is written by the author of book titled “ Hindu Electional Astrology”, the best selling compendium on Vedic / Hindu system of Muhurt astrology. Readers may log on to http://www.besttime-election.com for details.
Hindu Electional Astrology - http://hinduelectionalastrology-shridhar.blogspot.com/
Great points in the post, Dharmaruci. You said,
"In any normal reading one would be delving into the unresolved issues and life-challenges that these aspects represent, the talents and contradictions and dangers."
Yes, and what would these be? What would you be telling Barack in his reading? I'm very curious.
I, too, have a lot of shitty squares in my chart-- I can't bear to read Robert Pelletier's interpretations of what a loser I must be-- and I know I'm not fit to be President. But, I surely am fit to live a noble life in my station. I'm not a serial killer, after all! (You wouldn't expect me to be one without a grand trine, would you?)
I can only concur with Dharmaruci. In my opinion Obama is a wolf in a sheep coat. We know nothing about him other than he was hand picked by certain people during his exceptional performance during the Bill Clinton for president campaign. Trained for the job since that time.
He was not able to give his speech at The Victory Column!!!without the use of the two TelePrompTers. This was quite obvious. I can only caution, hero worship is quite dangerous. We still have to stay back a bit and analyse all aspects but please without emotions. On the the other hand, at the moment, American voters have the choice between Cholera and Pest. Like so many citizens of countries in the rest of the world.
Charles
I've linked to Obama's chart analysis from your previous post here
http://www.myastrologysigns.com/obama-under-the-astrologer-s-examination-67.html
The analysis on the post is different I wonder how Obama's chart really influences after all everything can be an opportunity for growth whether we take it or not can't always be predicted
BTW: Tried to find your contact info to suggest a blogrolls swap but failed.
If you can please contact me
There are several articles giving analysis of Obama's natal chart at www.raginguniverse.blogspot.com. The most recent speaks directly to the points raised in DR's post:
http://raginguniverse.blogspot.com/2008/06/fear-of-power.html
Excerpt:
First of all I want to mention the Saturn-Uranus opposition and the developing awareness of this authoritarian element, since Uranus adds objectivity and intellectuality. His recent speech is Berlin is being highly questioned but Germany is especially noted for leadership puzzles having four planets in Capricorn. The interesting issue now is the breaking of boundaries indicated by the Saturn-Uranus transit. This is why he blasted past his own borders and included the world in his plea. It's time for that. The borders will likely be rearranged in lots of places in the coming 20+ years. Time to get a move on with Aries flashing ahead.
... Those who fear this rising leader's power and don't want to need not worry, and I'll show you why. There is extensive information contained within his Saturn retrograde in the 12th house in Capricorn. One of the significant factors is the plan to keep him grounded and to restrict his ego expansion, especially being exactly inconjunct Uranus in Leo. The North Node next door is the Ace that waits. Saturn placed in that position is pretty much guaranteed humiliation tied to guilt being resolved this lifetime, for what? They don't know. Probably never will. Time to forget.
Nothing to fear. We the People are in power, always, especially in our own lives.
Check the comment thread of jm's post, too, for a link to "Growing Our Strengths" by Kathryn Harwig; the commenter ads this snip:
...As we speed toward 2012, we are being encouraged by the media and the politicians to focus on fear. I believe it is the job of the spiritual and metaphysical community to refuse to do this. We can take the lead in asking our candidates, both locally and nationally, to tell us what is good about the country and what strengths they will grow. We can refuse to worry about what is weak. We can quit worrying about identity theft and terrorism and focus on making the freedoms we have strong and our souls secure.
I have made a pact with myself. I am growing my own strengths as a person and voting for the candidates that promise to do the same. I am refusing to focus on what is weak or wrong.
Complaining is a hard habit to break, so it will be interesting to see how I do on this one. Best wishes on your own journeys of growing your strengths.
I say Amen.
One other factor to keep in mind: If the Democrats are successful in maintaining majorities in both houses in Congress, and gaining a filibuster-proof margin in the Senate (60+), then we could effectively have one party government with Obama at the helm.
Just about anything Dems would want to do, they could. Now some of us might we rejoice at that possibility, but we should be very cognizant of the incredible power that could hand to a demagogue, especially one who is able to sway public opinion easily.
I do believe Obama is a good man, with all intentions to accomplish good, unifying policies. But we/he don't know what we will be up against in the coming years, and we need to always check (and assess) our first impulses.
anonymous in NH
SQUARES also indicate inner strength in the face of personal challenges, which are plenty in a person's life if he does possess those kind of squares. Any leader will need that kind of strength in the face of today's social deconstruction and attempts at the NWO.
First, let's get the facts right. Obama was speaking at the Victory Column, the Siegessäule, not Brandenburg Gate. What's interesting about the Victory Column is it features prominently in Wim Wenders' "Wings of Desire." It's where the angels congregate in the film.
Seems like a perfect place for Obama with his Neptune square Sun. That Neptunian signature does allow people to project their hopes and dreams on to the candidate. Obviously, there's going to be disappointment and disillusionment, particularly with transiting Neptune heading for the natal U.S. Moon.
I did a riff on Obama myself in Berlin at my blog Astrology Mundo:
http://astrologymundo.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/barack-in-berlin-back-to-the-future/
The key to Obama, being touted as "The One" in the media is his enormous need for adulation and power. There is a very good article by Ryan Lizza in the New Yorker "How Chicago Shaped Obama" (07.21.08)that reveals that much of his activities have been motivated not so much by his values as by calculated decisions to improve his social/political capital. When President, the big question is how he will react to the inevitable opposition that will develop as he begins to implement ideas into policy and actions. He will after all take over a country deeply mired in economic and social problems the likes of which most of this generation has not faced. He is bound to lose some of his admirers and strengthen his opponents. Will he utilize the expanded presidential powers that he inherits from Bush to quell dissenters. And was his support of FISA not so much a move to the center as it was to retain those powers? These are not small questions given the squares in his chart.--antonio
Though a fan of Obama's I would be interested in a similarly thought provoking and slightly antagonistic McCain analysis that also poses astrological questions on this presidential hopeful. Obama is not the only one lacking content in their speeches.
Great post and thread!
Must vote for Obama to keep from voting for a Republican, yet your points concerning his background seem appropriate and the lack of substance is typical for any political candidate - say as little definite as possible so it's not as obvious when you 'go back' on things, aka the ever-present and dreaded flip flopping.
Lately I've been posting more article links critical to BHO's candidacy and motives...today one from John Pilger's site (.com) which labels Obama a hawk and expansionist in the Democratic Party tradition.
It's difficult to be dubious about Pilger's points on this because he gives BHO's statements with dates, some of which I heard for myself at the time.
As I read this article, I thought more of the cyclic comparison made so plain bwo Astrology - the demigogery you cite rearing its head once again, not as a specific "BHO as Hitler" accusation, but more like1930s meets 2008.
And the upcoming Saturn to US n Neptune will bring grim reality to stomp our illusions no matter who is selected for White House residency, don't you think?
Pardon if I missed a mention of this transit in the thread - I tried to read them all.
As for squares, I awoke from a lucid dream a few years ago (and if I'd read this somewhere I've yet to re-find it) - as I came up to consciousness from a dream about Astrology, it seemed an angel pointedly said: "squares form due to essential quests."
If anyone has written that before, I'd appreciate a shout-out on the reference!
Anyway, thanks again for such a thought-provoking article, jude
Good or bad, I'm starting to get worried because we have become so comfortable with saying/hearing that "we do not know Obama." Time is running out. When will we know who he is? There just seems to be a lot of mist, a comfortable fog, and if a fog or mist could speak, nice-sounding, but a cloud nevertheless. Why has it become ok to say/hear that "we do not know Obama?"
I've just removed a series of exchanges with an anonymous poster. I don't think I've done this before. But the more I debated with this person, the more psersonally attacking they got, so why not? It's my blog, after all!
Anyway, it's a mark of what matters if I can disagree with someone, even strongly, and we can still talk afterwards, even though we might still be a bit sore for a while. Just don't get personal! Argue the point!
http://astrotabletalk.blogspot.com/2008/07/taking-obamas-astrology-seriously.html
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