Last night I was in London for a talk by a well-known Tibetan Dzogchen teacher, Namkhai Norbu, who doesn’t visit England very often. The hall was packed with at least 300 people. I’d sort of gone along for the ride, because I’d done some of this guy’s practices about 11 years ago and found them quite powerful, and the people around him aren’t, on the whole, too earnest.The talk was rather long and his English isn’t very good and the hall was rather hot. And I couldn’t really argue with what he had to say, particularly as he doesn’t advocate renunciation. In fact, as a re-born bigwig, he was under pressure when he was 20 to become a monk, and he stood up to the Karmapa and various other archbishops and said no, and I thought that was impressive.
He’s also been a scholar for many years, and one of his points is that the Dzogchen teachings are also to be found within the Bon tradition, which pre-dates Buddhism within Tibet; and that Dzogchen was not physically taught by the historical Buddha. When he first started saying these things, a deputation of high lamas came to see him to try and shut him up, because Tibetan Buddhism is a religion and religions like to have an exclusive hold on their teachings and do not like their authenticity questioned. But he insisted as a matter of intellectual integrity, though also for another reason: the usual story is that Buddhism came to Tibet and gave it a high, ‘spiritual’ culture that had not been there before. His Dzogchen finding contradicts this. In a way, it gives Tibetans their self-respect back, whereas the usual approach by Buddhism is to denigrate, or even demonise, the Bon tradition. This is no different in principle to how Christianity dealt with the pagan religions in Europe. As I say, religions like to have an exclusive hold on the truth. It’s about power.The rather long talk amounted to a basic introduction to Buddhism, concluding with the Dzogchen teachings, so it was familiar ground. As I say, I didn’t feel inclined to disagree with the teachings except for one big, telling point. Apart from banging on and telling stories about the need to listen to the teachings (which kind of infantilises the audience), it was clear that Norbu thought everyone needed a path and a set of teachings, and that the Dzogchen teachings are about the best available.
I think very often we do need some sort of guidance or structure from outside ourselves, at least to start with. But there’s a very important stage that a lot of people go through of casting all that off and trusting in their own inner sense of guidance. This is what is so difficult for many people, and it is why you have religion (which performs a useful function for this earlier stage). It is why you get the Zen teaching “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!” You can see people teetering on the edge of this for years, half in and half out, not quite able to stick the knife in, to give up the seeming security of what they've been doing for so long. Or you see a kind of opposite, people going from one teacher to the next, searching for something that can only be found within. Of course, as astrologers we also encounter it regularly, people looking for answers, looking to be told the future, and our job is to help them locate their answers, or better their questioning, within.Of course, there are people who don’t need that structure in the first place. But teachers of a traditional mindset often don’t seem to properly recognise this crucial stage, whatever their other qualities. And you can’t say it to people who are following a particular path, assuming it was your business to do so, because to them it would be offensive.
The real experience of the day, for me, was seeing the ancient Assyrian and Egyptian sculptures in the British Museum, particularly the animal sculptures, mythological or otherwise. They were big, yet very finely sculpted, and fully expressed their natural power. Like the 2 stones lions, life-size, at ease in the way that only an animal that has no predators can be, yet there was no doubting the power that was ready to spring; the heads held up, looking sideways at you, regal.
The animal world has all these different characters with their unique powers that can be drawn on, that we resonate with. As humans we are not confined to one expression of power but many, though we do have to go out and find them. Give me that any day over being sat chanting earnestly in some foreign language, my mind set on an abstract idea of perfection. Or even remaining in my ‘natural state’, as the Dzogchenists do, which I think is much better than aiming for perfection. The Egyptians and Assyrians were obviously still connected to something raw and instinctual, yet there was no lack of refinement. But they also had their priests and hierarchies!

14 comments:
Great post. Have you read Karl Von Eckartshausen" "The Cloud Upon the Sanctuary"? You have a lot in common.
I know this teacher who is reknown in Italy for many reasons, he also taught in University in Naples for years. By the way it even happened to me to vist his centre called Merigar near Arcidosso, near the Mount Amiata, a mountain sacred for Etruscans and the home of the so-called “Prophet of the Amiata” Davide Lazzaretti, the founder of the Giurisdavidici movement...
In Badia San Salvatore there are important churches by the way...
His views about Bon and its influence upon Lamaism are fundamentally, for what I have studied, correct even if I absolutely do not appreciate any positions inside Bonism.
Norbu can help to have a more correct view about Lamaism and Tibet outside false myths.
Lamaism behaved in many times and ways like Christendom that persecuted pagan forms, these last not being the best of the best in any case as many neopagans do believe, but the point is that first of all Christianity must recognise what it took from preceeding world and, secondly, to persecute is bad in itself...
The problem is not: Bon is good or Bon is bad... Not Lamaism is good or Lamaism is bad...
The point is that Lamaism is not the “all” pure tradition too many believe in the West. Of course it has its own mysteries and its good side **as** its bad side... Why in the West they want to see only the good side...
Anyone knows the bad side of Catholic church but there is also the good side. The same happens for Lamaism...
I think you're sort of missing the point about the teachings that instruct people to listen to teachings. There are whole sections of sutras (e.g. the Lotus Sutra) that talk about how people are so attached to their delusions that they need help, almost even trickery, to get them to pay attention to the teachings. This is a classical, almost fundamental buddhist doctrine.
Your point that we need to start somewhere is a good one. And that we don't have to stay there. I haven't experienced those teachings, but can say that those that I have have a common theme.
Spiritual welfare programs and it's true that we need not interfer for it's their journey. Though some have been killed and kill for dogma. Humans a strange lot.
Loved the pictures. As an astrolger
I agree that many want answers to their life, when all they have to do is be responsible for their choices and empower themself to make better ones.
I think if people don't want to listen to you, then it's an imposition to keep at them. If you've got something worth saying, there are plenty of people who do want to listen. The Sutra you're quoting sounds a bit too evangelical, a bit too certain of itself and patronising, for my taste.
Just because something is 'classical doctrine' doesn't make it right: it might just be a more well-established, respectable mistake!
Anyway, it was very hard listening to Norbu because it was so hot and his English was so bad! He should have paid more attention to what his audience needed: cool air and a translator!
Well remember that this sutra teaching comes from the East, where there is essentially no proselytizing, people are born into their religion and that is that. So the idea of evangelizing people was totally radical at that time. It might seem patronizing, since we're coming from a Western Christian world where proselytizing is common.
Anyway, you remind me of one of my favorite stories, about Lyndon Baines Johnson, from before he was President, back when he was campaigning for Governor of Texas. It was a hot summer (as always) and LBJ had "advance men" taking care of the auditoriums and rooms where he would debate his opponent. He made sure the air conditioning was OFF during his opponent's speech, then turned back on for his speech. People were uncomfortable with his opponent and could barely listen, while LBJ seemed like a breath of fresh, cool air (and he was). Ha.
How come Buddhism grew from a small sect to become at one point the main religion of India if there was no proselytising? If you read the early Scriptures you'll see that Buddha specifically sent his disciples out to spread his teaching.
I think the sutra is patronising because it is written by monks who felt themselves to be on a superior path to ordinary worldlings who are 'are so attached to their delusions'.
Charles, LBJ never campaigned to be the Governor of Texas. The story you recount was during LBJ's 1948 campaign to become one of the two US Senators from Texas.
This was also the race it was later determined that several rural counties had some dead folks voting. For LBJ, of course!
Well done, you ranked in the top 50 Best Astrology Blogs for the month.
not sure I agree with your interpretation...Buddhism teaches that sentient being suffer because they are caught in samsara... i.e. attached to a delusary view that limits their understanding of their infinite nature. Once that limitation is transcended, and the View (as it is called in Dzogchen) is obtained, then the vow of the Boddhisattva is to save a sentient beings by wise and compassionate acts, including prayer and teaching, to liberate them from samsaric suffering. So teaching the dharma is considered skillful means. I don't think proselytizing, in the sense of forcing your views on others, is included in that.
Dzogchen, or the "Great Perfection" is about realization. Basically, it means realizing your inner nature, and that of everyone and everything, is an expression of primordial wisdom, which is already perfect. It is our interpretation of events based on karmic conditioning which deludes us into seeing things as better or worse. This doesn't mean it's okay to do harmful things. That's being delusional. Rather, it means that nondual, absolute reality is indivisible from dualistic, relative reality -- so there's nothing wrong with our lives, just our point of view that's incorrect.
Brain Chemistry, Very nicely put..about realization ..everyone and everything is already perfect. We do have to work with the personality and the subconscious mind as we experience this reality. The VIEW POINT, who's driving the bus is the question I ask myself. I observed a live blood-cell analysis on a big TV screen of a woman with physical challenges. I watched the cells bump into each other and cells eat parasites that gave birth to more parasites. My point,
our thoughts have real power to create. Admit into your consciousness only those things you wish to become manifest in your life. I'm working on being more aware of that, so others can too.
Exactly the point I have come to and great to see it affirmed so effectively. Also I wondered how one could follow astrology and think this way as it seems so 'predictive' an art, as though answers do exist 'out there'. I liked what you wrote about locating one's answers or questioning within - real food for thought. Great post.
Brain Chemistry (I suppose that's no more weird than calling yourself Dharmaruci!), proselytising is defined as:
"to try to persuade someone to change their religious or political beliefs or their way of living to your own."
I think there's plenty of that in Buddhism, however skillfully done. It's not the same as forcing, but I think a lot of it can still be rooted in the idea that Buddhism is the best, the highest means to perfection, and therefore it is rooted in wanting, even needing, others on board, and that's just religion. It's just what often happens in practice, and I view that as part of the religion as much as I do the theory, which may contradict the practice.
But I like the Dzogchen teachings, and one part of that is because the emphasis is on realizing the true nature of mind through being true to your 'natural state', and you therefore do not get the same divisions into monk and lay, superior and inferior, because lifestyle is beside the point, Dzogchen is not about DOING anything in particular.
All the same, you get your Dzogchen organisations just like any other, and you get division into hierarchy there because that's what people are like, and this places realisation outside oneself into the more senior members of the hierarchy, and that contradicts Dzogchen. But as I say, that's just what people are like, and seeing this is often an important part of the path to realisation.
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