Wednesday, June 18, 2008

Kennedy and Obama: Dreams from the Father

In my Saturday post Obama the African Chief, I may have lost my point to some people by the way I put it! Because to bring in the spectre of African dictators is like bringing in Hitler: discussion easily comes to an end amid what seems to be an extreme and harsh position. (That said, the great lesson of Hitler is that all collectives have the potential to subsume themselves to heartless authoritarian leaders. I don’t think Obama is one of them, but I think George Bush has a good streak of it, and no shortage of followers.)

Using astrocartography we see that on the one hand Barack Obama has a Moon line running through Washington, so he will feel comfortable as President; and on the other hand we see a Pluto line running through Kenya, his father’s country. Natally Obama has Moon square Pluto, so these Moon and Pluto lines are connected, we have to make something of this connection. It tells us that Obama will bring some sort of inheritance from his Kenyan roots to his Presidency. And because his Moon is in hard aspect to Pluto, it may be creative, and it may also be problematic.

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My favourite comment from the Saturday post was Neith’s, that this coming Presidential election is politics as usual! I agree with her, it brings everything down to earth. And it reminds us that a persistent theme in politics is that of the idealistic new leader who will do it all differently: that also is politics as usual. Which is not to say Obama might not also do some genuinely good stuff, like Blair (in the UK) and Kennedy did.

So I take this into account when considering Obama’s Moon square Pluto (and Sun square Neptune). There will be problematic dimensions to these aspects, which will emerge over time. Like many creative, larger than life people, both his positive attributes and his faults are likely to be BIG. He may well do brilliant things, and may well also be impossible in some ways. And afterwards we will think if only he hadn’t been like that, he could have done so much more!

John F Kennedy had a Saturn-Neptune-MC conjunction: his career (MC) was an expression of the leadership dreams (Neptune in Leo) of his father (Saturn). This is quite interesting, because 48 years later we have another Democratic Nominee who is attracting a similar kind of idealism, and has written a book called “Dreams from my Father.” Obama has Neptune (Dreams) square his Sun (Father).

I think there is a difference, however, between the 2 men. Obama is a bit older than Kennedy was, and I think his connection to his father is more reflective. Kennedy was the product of a political family with a dodgy history, where politics was what you were expected to do. JFK was expected to be President because his older brother, who’d been lined up for it, died in the War. And Obama does carry the dream from his father and his father’s father of success and of changing the world. Even though he only met his father once, these dreams still have a way of being passed down. Both men have/had the name Barack Hussein Obama, both went to Harvard and both have/had political idealism. But unlike Kennedy he doesn’t have an ambitious family mafia behind him, or the actual mafia.

When he was 29, Obama Senior wrote a report that was sharply critical of Kenyan government policy, and the resulting conflict with the President destroyed Obama's career, and he took to drinking. With Obama junior's natal Sun square Neptune, we could also read an attempt to redeem (Neptune) the father (Sun).

I saw a TV programme recently about the meetings between Kennedy and Krushchev. Kennedy, like a college student, waded in on an ideological level to try to prove to Krushchev that the capitalist system was better than the Communist system. The much older and more experienced Krushchev was not impressed, and was easily able to dance around Kennedy, reminding him of the dodgy foreign activities that the US got up to. You couldn’t imagine Obama being that na├»ve, but at the same time he does seem to slip up on foreign policy, like saying Jerusalem must remain the undivided capital of Israel, or that as President he would be open to discussions with all foreign leaders. It makes me bang my head a bit, and wonder how much wisdom he has.

Back to his Pluto line. Running through Kenya, this also describes the ‘Dreams from my Father’ (along with Sun square Neptune). I haven’t read the book, but the title is very significant. One American Obama supporter was saying to me the other day how the Kenyan inheritance was not relevant, as he didn’t know his father. And then in the same breath she praised his book. I said look at the title!

Pluto is not just his father, it is his ancestral inheritance from Kenya. It describes the ancient currents running through the culture, for better and for worse. I do not know this culture, but what we all know is that African countries tend towards dictatorships, Kenya included. This is one element in that Pluto, and what Obama will make of it when he attains power remains to be seen. More positively, there may also, for example, be a sense of divine kingship, an ancient sense that the leader needs to be connected to some other Source (Sun in Leo square Neptune), but not in the gross Bush/Blair sense of taking orders from God.

Being President inevitably kicks in ancient archetypes of kingship (Democracy? Ha, Ha!) Obama's are as much African as they are American/European. This will be interesting.

Incidentally, his Progressed Chart currently has a Jupiter Rising line running near Washington and a Jupiter IC line through Kenya!

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dawa satso said...

Well done, Dharmaruci, as usual.
Keep in mind a president doesn't handle foreign policy by himself. It appears Obama is gravitating toward the right people who are savvy and definitely NOT naive when it comes to dealing with leaders abroad.
One is Joe Biden who probably ran as a candidate just to make himself visible for the role of Sect'y of State which, rumor has it, is exactly the role he will likely be given. The guy is diamond hard, knowledgeable, creative enough to be genuinely funny. John Edwards, Attorney General, Clark, possible VP (really good choice), and Dodd for another role (forget which).
Believe me, since every president without exception receives on the job training, he's choosing people with good minds to conference with.
That heartens me as no other factor in this election has.

Still, I suspect the american people will suffer similar short-sheeted neglect under his administration. It will be about every other country except the people who live here. Deep down I feel he is a cheap SOB.

Nancy Fen said...

Until now, I admired the ironic intelligence of Godwin's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

dawa satso said...

nancy fen, excuse me? What happens when it's relevent.

yeshe_choden said...


of all the reservations about Obama I have heard and pondered, "cheap SOB" is the first one that made me break out in a broad smile.

dawa satso said...

Cynical Ha!Ha! yeshe, unfortunately. If we've been listening we've heard the following from Obama.
1)He proposes $4,000 per year per kid for their College education in exchange for 1 year of National Service. One year of their lives for less than 1/4th of what it costs to attend a year of college.
That might get a poor kid training to be a mechanic. Otherwise they can FORGET professional credentials.
2)He says "those who can't afford it will get healthcare" in response to Hillary Clinton saying 15 million people still will not get healthcare under his so-called plan. What he said is true right now...welfare recipients whose income is dirt poor ALREADY get healthcare through Medicaid. It's those suckers like most of us who don't have $7,000 per year who will still be left without medical care.
3)I heard him 4 days ago say, "those poor single mothers whose kids are uninsured will get care for them". States are already passing laws, reinstating laws and reinsuring children the republicans cut off 8 years ago. States are doing it themselves.
4)It's the PARENTS those children depend upon that will be as vulnerable and screwed as they've always been and will STILL not have healthcare for themselves.
Nevermind their deaths mean ORPHANS who have healthcare.
4)He has said next to nothing about how to help those who have lost their homes to the mortgage predators, other than give them 3 extra months to cough up the money.

Like I said. Obama is a vague-talking liar-by-ommission whose influence will change little nor uplift anyone by the opportunities he himself received and so generously accepted for HIMSELF.
Cheap SOB describes him perfectly.

dawa satso said...

I wonder if Obama knows what it's like to worry about what will happen to his kids if he has a medical crisis and he can't get treatment (retail, sloppy treatment enjoyed by the uninsured. One visit, no tests), or, if he had a chronic condition that one day, unexpectedly he knows will kill him way before he reaches normal life expectancy, and he is a single parent without extended family to look after his kids. In this society no one actually cares about whether your kids languish going home-to-home in this country's foster care system where they get lost and abused and often starved( by lazy people who do it for the money,are approved, but certainly not for generosity of heart).

If you're a single parent in the u.s. you think about this EVERY DAY hoping you live long enough to get them adulthood.

No, I don't expect the millions in this predicament can expect any comfort or peace of mind from Mr. Obama.

Anonymous said...

Dawa: Barack's Mom who died of cancer in the 90s had to deal with all sorts of insurance crap - so yes he knows. Michelle's Dad also had some bad medical issues too and her family wasn't well off either. Now if you expect any silver bullets from any politician your naive, but yes he understands the issue on a personal level. Although given our debt from the Iraq War you'll be lucky if there's any money for Social Security at the rate things are going.

Anonymous said...

I don't think this is politics as usual. The funding sources in the Obama campaign are totally different than anything that has been done before (at least by mainstream candidates). He actually has millions of small individual donors. Which is really, really important if you don't want an official who is as beholden to the self-interested few (I say "as" beholden because I'm not niave).

It is easy and cheap to be cynical. It's an easy way to seem like an expert without actually doing the digging. Same thing goes for unbridled optimists.

At this point, I'm concerned about whether something or someone is useful and brings us forward.

dawa satso said...

No, anonymous. It is not "easy" nor "cheap" to be cynical (what a strange statement). Believe what YOU wish. I am not given to dazzlement by personalities and absolutely hate groundless suppositions that have shades of fundamentalist shutdown. Obama's "believers" scare me. They just do.

I am paying attention. I know straight talk when I hear it. I'll know results when I see them.

dawa satso said...

Case in point, "Obama backs out of earlier statements of public funding for his campaign":

So much for THAT illusion.

Anonymous said...

Second case in point, Glen Greenwald (Who has been a supporter of Barack Obama.) today posted this on his blog:

dawa satso said...

Glen Greenwald is an astute and valuable journalist. In this FISA article link he also said this:

"Our fund-raising campaign has just exceeded $200,000. The only solace is that it provides some ability to target those responsible and do everything possible to remove them from power and end their political careers for good (the list thus far includes Steny Hoyer, Chris Carney and John Barrow). It is worthwhile to continue to call Barack Obama's campaign to demand that he intervene with meaningful action to stop this (though you'd be advised not to hold your breath while waiting for that to happen)."

Steny's toast as of 1-21-10. Did a thorough scan of his charts,but that's another topic.

Anonymous said...

dawa satso,

But did you read the post on Barack Obama, which follows the one on FISA?

dawa satso said...

Yes. That's quite a tome. So now Obama needs pressuring to do the right thing.
Screw him. All of them.

This gov't is officially my enemy, yours & and everyone we know.

Mandy said...

Bliar did some good? Really? When?

Dharmaruci said...

Under Blair a lot more money was put into public services. You can question how it was then spent, the targets etc, but in itself I think that was a good thing. And they did it without undermining the economy, which kept growing. No government has done this before - the Tories used to knacker the public services, and Labour the economy.

Sonia said...

Blair let us all down terribly with his support for the Iraq war. I think he betrayed the whole left wing.. and he was able to do that because he is a 'good' politician (makes good speeches). I hope Obama doesn't do the same.

Probably will..

Anonymous said...

Yes, sonia,

Obama has already dealt a death blow to campaign finance reform (his signature (only) issue), and he hasn't even been elected yet.

Look for more disappointment to come!

Mu'Min M. Bey said...

Hi DR,
Its been awhile, work and all that, but just wanted to weigh in here.

I think its important to bear in mind that this "new" BC, which comes on the heels of the "new" birthtime by Patry at UAC, which was a fiasco if there ever was one, has yet to be vetted. Per ADB Obama's birthtime(s) are still rated "DD", and until we can verify the BC we cannot trust it.

Throughout all of my writings on Obama, I've been using a test time of 3AM AHST, which yields a 29 Gemini Asc using Placidus houses. W/it I've been able to successfully track and prect events from the chart per my researches. I wholly admit that it is nothing but an educated guesstimate about his birthtime, and that it is wholly possible that such will come to light, be confirmed by the astrology world's industry standard, and my test time becomes a thing of the past. Again, until that great gettin' up morning comes, I stand by my own researches.

Per that chart, Obama's headed for some trouble later this year, before elections. Don't have my PC w/me right now, but I think its after the convention but before Nov. I plan to address this and other sundried points of interest on my blog. Study tuned for updates.

In the meantime, I have to agree w/much of what Sato said, and is interesting to observe Obama's Mercurial, to put it lightly, nature. Gemini Asc, anyone?

Holla back


Mandy said...

More money only means better services if it is spent well...

We're reaping the benefits of the Blair Premiership/ Brown Chancellorship right now ....(who sold off all that gold bullion lower than he should have done.)

To my mind we're finding out about the smoke and mirrors of the Bliar years right now.

Anonymous said...

Obama now supports assault on the Constitution. Check this out:

Obama is already letting us know what he will do when he attains power! Every day now there is a new revelation.